ACA..aka Obamacare is the law....for now.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion & War Issues' started by bigvalboy, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. BSR

    BSR Viscount

    There is a lack of insurance options under Obamacare. Seven states have only one insurer providing insurance through Obamacare because major insurers like Blue Cross Blue Shield, United Healthcare and Aetna are all leaving the exchanges because of unsustainability. As a result, there has been less competition throughout the Obamacare exchanges, contributing to the rise of premiums and deductibles and less consumer choice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017 at 6:21 PM
    BOZO T CLOWN and MikeBiDude like this.
  2. BSR

    BSR Viscount

    States are getting crushed by Medicaid costs. The governors and state legislators who must have assumed that leprechauns' gold would pay for the vast expansion of Medicaid are now faced with millions more than expected on Medicaid and spiraling, out-of-control costs. If you look at the balance sheets of most states, especially blue states, there is simply no money in the budget to cover these much higher than expected costs.
     
    BOZO T CLOWN and MikeBiDude like this.
  3. BSR

    BSR Viscount

    Obama promised that the ACA would reduce the number of people going to emergency rooms for medical care (the most costly option), but instead the opposite has happened. Because fewer and fewer doctors are accepting Medicaid, Medicaid patients are forced to go to ERs, which means longer than ever wait times and increased costs overall.
     
    BOZO T CLOWN and MikeBiDude like this.
  4. BSR

    BSR Viscount

    Obamacare has created a worrisome shortage of primary care doctors. There wasn't exactly a "surplus" of primary care physicians before the ACA became law, and now fewer and fewer doctors are choosing to go into primary care. One of the biggest reasons is Obamacare itself, which was rated a "D" or an "F" by 46% of physicians.
     
    BOZO T CLOWN and MikeBiDude like this.
  5. BSR

    BSR Viscount

    According to the Congressional Budget Office, the number of uninsured Americans is expected to increase by ~2 million in the next 10 years (page 9 of the report). You're exalting the beauty and the compassion of Obamacare. What exactly is so beautiful and compassionate about 2 million more uninsured?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017 at 2:07 AM
    BOZO T CLOWN and MikeBiDude like this.
  6. BSR

    BSR Viscount

    The Congressional Budget Office also warns that the federal debt will rise to $30 trillion within a decade, with the increased costs of Obamacare as a primary driver. Anyone with a lick of common sense can figure out that such unchecked levels of federal spending can't be sustained forever. At some point, the staggering costs of Obamacare will cause the whole system to collapse. The liberal response of course will be "more money more money more money," as if an army of leprechauns will swoop in and donate their pots of gold, and then everyone will live happily ever after. Some of us are more realistic. More of a when than an if, when Obamacare itself collapses, not just insurance companies going bankrupt or state exchanges going belly-up, then the health care of all Americans (except the super-rich, I suppose) will suffer. I find nothing beautiful or compassionate about that.

    I'm sure you'll have a response, but I'm not sure if I'm interested in debating this issue much further. Discussing Obamacare with liberals is very similar to debates over global warming. If liberals' true motivation were affordable, quality health care for all Americans, then it's a subject worth my time and energy to debate. But what I believe is that liberals' ulterior motive for government control of health care (or the energy industry in the global warming issue) is not health care or the environment, but government control. Because liberals pretend to be debating one issue (health care or the environment) but really are striving toward another goal, debate is quite pointless.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017 at 2:11 AM
    BOZO T CLOWN likes this.
  7. bigjoey

    bigjoey Marquess

    Interesting list of Obamacare's faults that are well known BUT the issue right now is what will the Republicans replace it with? We know where we are BUT we need to know where we are going.
     
    MiamiLooker likes this.
  8. MiamiLooker

    MiamiLooker Count

    Post after post of whining about Obamacare, but you've offered no alternative suggestions. Do you have an opinion on a healthcare program that you would support and accept? Or do you need to wait until the Repubs present their plan so you'll know what your opinion should be?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017 at 10:08 AM
    bigvalboy and bigjoey like this.
  9. SundayZip

    SundayZip Lord

    If I had to pick a number one reason that the Democrats lost the White House and a deplorable Republican is now president-elect, I'd say it's because there are people like you. Too many people are believing the propaganda.
     
  10. purplekow

    purplekow Prince

    Right now there are more insured people in the US than ever before. What was beautiful about the policies before Obamacare?
     
  11. trav05

    trav05 Journeyman

    Unfortunately the deductibles are so high, many of the new insured can't use it.
     
    BSR, BOZO T CLOWN and MikeBiDude like this.
  12. bigjoey

    bigjoey Marquess

    There is a difference between having "insurance" and having "medical care." This seems to be lost in the debate.
     
    BSR likes this.
  13. Nvr2Thick

    Nvr2Thick Viscount

    There's nothing that can replace it. The ACA is built around mandating that higher liabilities be included in the insurance model. Insurance plans have intentionally left preexisting conditions and subsidized clients out of their model because they are profound liabilities. The ACA tried to find a way to fund these liabilities, but a large portion bleeds back to the insurance companies and to the premiums of the previously insured. From the insurance companies' perspective they make insurance either economically unsound or uninteresting from the perspective of profitability.

    I agree that something should replace the ACA, but by now it's clear that nothing will. Those that would repeal the ACA are fine with going back to insurance as it was pre 2010. Many believe that while it's a problem it's not one that the government should solve. It's certainly not one that the markets will work out for itself.
     
  14. MiamiLooker

    MiamiLooker Count

    “Repeal and replace” is a cute chant. We’ll see how this all plays out. The Repubs have been instructed to come up with something immediately, not only as good, but better than Obamacare. Can they do it? Whether he likes it or not, whatever they come up with will have Trump’s name attached to it. Will Trump explain and try to sell Trumpcare to America, or will he leave this to someone else in case he needs a scapegoat?
     
  15. pitman

    pitman Knight

    I think their best bet would be to repeal the ACA, then pass an identical act called the Make America Great Again Act. How would that be better than Obamacare? Some of the more ignorant, Obama-hating Trumpsters would immediately get on board, and we
    might be able to start focusing on how to improve our health-care system.
     
    Lookin likes this.
  16. BSR

    BSR Viscount

    Although Obamacare is already in crisis and will soon sink into catastrophe, I disagree that the its faults are "well known." If you listen to and read what liberals have to say about the ACA, plenty of them seem to have no clue about the imminent disaster. Some are simply ignorant; others know all too well what the problems are but choose to propagandize. Either/or, the bullshit narrative that "Obamacare is beauty and compassion" is being swallowed by a good chunk of the American population.
     
    BOZO T CLOWN likes this.
  17. deej

    deej Administrator

    I have my doubts. The biggest problem they have is that Obamacare IS the republican plan, from the Heritage Foundation, that Mitt Romney implemented in Mass.

    Pitman may have hit on a workable scheme, though, since the part of Obamacare that republicans don't like is the Obama part.
     
    latbear4blk and Lookin like this.
  18. BSR

    BSR Viscount

    Once again, liberals personalize an issue when there's nothing personal about it. Republicans/conservatives/libertarians/Tea Partyers opposed Obamacare because it was doomed to disaster. The umpteen points I made previously are only an incomplete list of all the program's problems. Even though every negative consequence that the ACA's opponents warned against has turned out to be true, liberals still paint all opposition to the bill as good old-fashioned Obama hatred. Personalizing the issue is pathetic and petty, yet liberals resorted to that strategy time and again because they couldn't defend Obamacare itself. Today, the disastrous consequences of ACA implementation speak for themselves.
     
    MikeBiDude likes this.
  19. jjkrkwood

    jjkrkwood Regent

    Too muck talking and its All bullshit. What America needs is AFFORDABLE healthcare for everyone. Bottom line. I dont care who gives it to us. So stop all the debating and finger pointing and just get it done. Then noone will care and everyone will be protected. In the meantime, more people have insurance now than ever before. At what cost is not a concern of mine. It means sick people can go to a doctor and get treated, and not go broke. All this cerebral chatter is worthless and annoying. Unless someone has a viable option that is all inclusive that is better than what we have, ya'll need to keep your mouths shut.
     
    MikeBiDude likes this.
  20. BSR

    BSR Viscount

    First of all, your argument that "sick people can go to a doctor and get treated, and not go broke" is flat-out false. Annual deductibles, that is, the amount that a patient has to spend out of pocket before insurance payments kick in, have skyrocketed as a direct consequence of Obamacare's mandates. Some plans have a deductible as high as $10,000. Since 63% of Americans have less than $500 in savings, a high deductible means they can't afford to go to a doctor and get treated, or else they will go broke. Like @bigjoey said, there is one helluva difference between having insurance and having health care.

    When Obamacare was getting rammed through Congress without a single Republican vote and when Republicans/conservatives/libertarians/Tea Partyers were issuing dire warnings about the flaws of the ACA, liberals branded all opponents of the bill "RACIST!" Now that all the dire predictions have come to pass, arguing that Obamacare opponents are racists is a tough sell, so liberals try stamping out all dissent by saying "shut the fuck up unless you have a better idea." Because there is nothing liberals hate more than being disagreed with, they will take any and all measures to ensure that all dissent is quashed. Well, quashing dissent might make liberals feel good, but it doesn't change the ugly truths about Obamacare.

    Undoing the clusterf*ck catastrophe that Obama and the Democrats have created will be an enormously difficult and complicated task, but it is a Herculean labor that Republicans must undertake in order to prevent the current crisis from sinking into system-wide catastrophe. I find it ironic that liberals are now the ones screaming that I need to come up with a better alternative when liberals were the ones who made the mess, but then again, personal responsibility was never liberals' strong suit. I'll leave the most unenviable challenge of righting Obamacare's wrongs to Donald Trump and the Republicans in Congress. In order to get support for whatever measures they come up with, however, we first need to dispel the myth that Obamacare is a great government program with a few "growing pains."
     
    BOZO T CLOWN likes this.