'It Is Over': Congress Certifies Donald Trump's Victory

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion & War Issues' started by Guy Fawkes, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. RockyMount

    RockyMount Knight

    Ted Kennedy was a disgusting human being. He left Mary Jo Kopechne to die while his coward ass went back to his hotel room and didn't even TRY to help. He even walked past a firehouse after leaving the pond. And the liberals adore this creep. It shocks the conscience. Thankfully, the Devil has his due.
     
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  2. bigjoey

    bigjoey Marquess

    To save you time from rereading my posts, I have talked about the study in terms of inner-city schools. When you go beyond the big picture and take a micro view of the underlying numbers, it is the inner-city traditional schools that are the failure of public education and it is those schools where charters offer a good alternative; this is YOUR first bullet point above. My constant concern has been for the poor, minority child trapped in those underperforming traditional schools, not the other children.

    In looking at any study in any field, the broad numbers are often misleading and you need to drill down to see how those statistics are derived. That is why I have continually focused on the large, inner-city schools that are failing like Chicago, St Louis, Baltimore, etc. This is where the problem schools are; this is where alternatives need to be found. Children in Shaker Heights, Beverly Hills, etc are fine and alternatives are not needed. The charter school movement was founded by blacks like Polly Williams and Marva Collins because they saw the problems in their inner-city schools. The popularity of charter schools in the black community among parents is because they know best the problems their children face.

    The real estate tax credit issue is a diversion from the facts of YOUR bullet point number one above: minority children do substantially better in charter schools. The whole tax structure of this country where taxes are used to change personal behavior should be a thread of its own. The economic distortions are huge from these tax credits and deductions. Be it real estate or environmental spending, the credits allow a "hefty return" on investments in the areas our government has decided need added attention. Heavy lobbying is often the source of these tax credits and the real estate lobby is one of the largest but no different than the environmental lobby or the many others that entice legislators with campaign contributions that ultimately produce these tax credits and deductions.

    My focus has been on how to help inner-city, minority children get the education they need to be successful in life. Education and family have been my two big points in many threads. The "educational establishment" supports the status quo of the failing system because they have a financial stake in the existing system; the "educational establishment" cares more about maintaining their own "honey pot" than educating children. Betsy DeVos is wrong in many respects like having lax regulation on charter schools BUT she will shake-up the existing "establishment" and IF Congress passes good legislation with good oversight and controls, poor, inner-city, minority children can be helped as YOUR bullet point number one shows. Time to break up the education monopoly that harms children.
     
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  3. WilliamM

    WilliamM Prince

    Beverly Hills? If the school system in Beverly Hills was inadequate, the children who live in Beverly Hills would be sent to excellent private schools.

    I am making the point only because I have met student at the University of Pennsylvania who graduated Beverly Hill High School.
     
  4. bigjoey

    bigjoey Marquess

    More like: parents with resources have school choice; if they do not like the public schools, they can send their children to good private schools. Think the Obamas and the Clintons (along with anti-choice Senators and Congresspersons) who did not like the Washington, DC schools for their children so their children were sent to private schools (or they moved just outside DC to a place with good public schools). The children of the poor, mostly minority parents were stuck with the failed public schools.

    Bottom line: school choice is reserved for those with resources. Thank you for pointing this out. Great example of the inequality in our education system and why there needs to be a "shake up" of the "educational establishment" by someone like DeVos.
     
  5. sync

    sync Viscount

    I can get behind that. While we cannot agree upon the value of public vs. charter schooling one over the other, I feel we also cannot disagree that both charter and public schooling in the U.S. have some hurdles to clear before the U.S. can take the lead in primary and secondary education (currently ranked at #14). It would be encouraging to see a meeting of the minds of the teachers' union, charter school advocates and the Departments of Education, state and federal with parental input. It will probably happen, but I doubt that I'll be around to see it.
     
  6. WilliamM

    WilliamM Prince

    I am still laughing at Beverly Hills as an example of a place were vouchers are not needed, as you stated in your previous post. Talk about stating the obvious!
     
  7. bigjoey

    bigjoey Marquess

    I can go with that. :)

    My first choice has always been great public schools like when I was young (at 70, I can still remember those years and great teachers). However, as I have mentioned, it is the reluctance to almost any reforms by the teacher unions that have contributed to the lowing level of education in this country; without reforms, more money poured into a broken system will not yield better results. Due to the lack of reforms, alternatives are needed and that is where I see quality charter schools coming into play. My goal is to help the children above all else.
     
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  8. bigjoey

    bigjoey Marquess

    I did not say "vouchers" are not needed but that [public] "alternatives" were not needed; the people in Beverly Hills are rich enough to use their own resources to provide their own alternatives if they were unhappy with the schools. You need to up your reading skills a notch.

    But I did thank you for pointing out how charters (and vouchers) and other alternatives are really an issue of "equality." For all of the social justice warriors who are concerned about the poor and minorities with housing, medical care, etc, there seems to be a failing in recognizing that education is a civil rights issue, too.
     
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  9. WilliamM

    WilliamM Prince

    @bigjoey, You are a political moderate. Betsy DeVos is a far-right conservative, who agrees with you on a few issues (vouchers and perhaps unions).

    Looking at the bigger pictures, aren't you concerned that someone like DeVos has a place in Trump's cabinet? If Betsy DeVos is a controversial figure in Michigan, wait until the rest of the country gets to know her.
     
  10. WilliamM

    WilliamM Prince

    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  11. bigjoey

    bigjoey Marquess

    I am concerned that the "education establishment" has harmed for life many poor and minority children by failing to give them an education. As Mayor Emanuel's experience in Chicago shows, even modest reforms proposed by a Democrat go no where. The system needs "change" and it will take someone like DeVos to do it. Looking at the big picture, Congress writes the laws and if Congress takes some of her ideas, moderates them and writes a good law with oversight and standards to meet on any reforms, then her personal views are secondary.

    Just as I am pro-abortion, I would still vote for a Catholic office holder who is anti-abortion personally but understands he/she must follow the law. I believe Joe Biden fits that description of an office holder who is personally opposed by his religious beliefs to abortion but understands the law and enforces the law and not his personal beliefs.

    This country can not afford to keep discarding thousands of young, inner-city minority children. If Betsy Devos can shake up the failed, status quo "educational establishment," then I am for her. Her personal political views, her personal religious views are secondary to me to the chances for her to bring about the needed changes. As Bernie Sanders put it: "We need a revolution."
     
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  12. sync

    sync Viscount

    You have brought back memories. In my early years I was employed in the business office of a public central school district. The teachers weilded a lot of power. For that area (upstate New York) and those years (ahem) their salaries were beyond enviable, tenure was rampant, a great retirement plan, and how many full-time jobs give you the summer off? One teacher told me it was those offerings that made him decide to be a teacher...so much for it being about the children in his case. :(
     
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  13. bigjoey

    bigjoey Marquess

    The New York Times editorial is interesting in that it ignores the history of Senate confirmation of cabinet officials:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-nominations/?utm_term=.5d7471f8223f#comments

    The risk to a Trump administration is that like Jimmy Cater, something undisclosed will come back to bite the president later; it is really the Republicans who are taking the risk. It is clear the Democrats want to "slow walk" all Trump appointments as part of their declared "resistance" to the administration and to slow down policy changes a new cabinet official will bring. "Elections have consequences" and the Democrats want to delay those consequences as long as possible. Of course, the irony is the Democrats lost their power to filibuster these nominees due to Harry Reid's rule change :) The Trump cabinet should be called "The Harry Reid Cabinet." Only now is the damage that Harry Reid caused becoming apparent: thanks, Harry.

    Yes, it is going to be a divisive and ugly four years.
     
  14. bigjoey

    bigjoey Marquess

    For the record, my choice for Secretary of Education would have been Eva Moskowitz, the head of New York's Success Academy.
     
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  15. WilliamM

    WilliamM Prince

    @bigjoey, I am aware of the problem, because several of my aunts and uncles taught in the mill towns of Lowell and Lawrence, Massachusetts during the time they taught (several decades) the populations of the cities changed dramatically. I never heard my relatives use racial terms to describe the new students. But, my aunt's brother-in-law, a priest who taught at an upscale prep school in Tulsa, used racial slurs constantly concerning Hispanics on visits home.

    I do not envy Betsy DeVos. But, I hope she is very successful with teachers as well as students
     
  16. bigjoey

    bigjoey Marquess

    Yes, I agree we need to hope that she is very successful in being an agent of "change." However, it is Congress that will create any new laws and approve any spending; it is their job to hold DeVose accountable; it is their job to set standards and be sure Secretary DeVos holds the schools to those standards. It is really her job to enforce the laws that Congress writes and the voters to hold Congress responsible politically to being sure they do their job.

    If she is a "change" agent and reforms get passed and enforced and students benefit, then we are all winners.