The organ

Discussion in 'Comedy & Tragedy' started by AdamSmith, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    And yet comparison even with Koopman's extraordinary artistry may show why I find Chapuis to have reached certain heights that others in living memory just have not.

     
  2. whipped guy

    whipped guy Regent

    At times the term HIP is used when discussing performances using modern instruments to emphasize the fact that certain HIP practices are used with modern instruments such as judicious or total non-use of vibrato, taking repeats in the da capo of minuets, a tendency for faster tempos in slow movements, etc. In some quarters it is emphatically not a compliment. As an example check out reviews by Donald Vroon in the American Record Guide who uses the term in a derogatory fashion! As an example Mr. Vroon prefers Sir Thomas Beecham's Haydn to that of virtually any modern conductor bemoaning the lack of warm vibrato (modern stringed instruments were designed to be played with a certain amount of vibrato in his book) as well a the tendency for swifter tempos in most modern performances.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
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  3. whipped guy

    whipped guy Regent

    Since I mentioned Donald Vroon who is the editor as well as a contributing reviewer at the American Record Guide, I need to mention his unique writing style. His reviews tend to be succinct and to the point. There is not one extraneous or unnecessary word, only the exact number of words required to get his message across. Here is an example of a complete review of a recording of Mozart Piano Concerti by Kristian Bezuidenhout and the Freiburgh Baroque Orchestra which was placed after a review of pianist Alfred Brendal in similar repertory.

    After Brendel this is miserable. Squeaks and scrapes pretend to be an orchestra, and they have other PPP manerisms, like weird swelling in the middle of held notes. Listen to No. 12 in both recordings and let me know if you can honestly prefer this nonsense.

    Note to @quoththeraven : PPP = Period Performance Practice not ppp = pianississimo!

    With Mr. Vroon there is no doubt where he stands. If you like HIP performances this recording might be your cup of tea.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
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  4. honcho

    honcho Protector of the Realm

    The wierd swelling in the middle of held notes comes as a normal consequence of using a baroque bow instead of a modern one. And then wind players are asked to emulate what the strings do naturally.

    I got recruited for the baroque ensemble at school for this semester and was expected to do that (even as an oboe player),
    and also not use any vibrato at all. (Despite the fact that the pricey counter-tenor they hired as a soloist used it judiciously as a vocal ornament).
     
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  5. Nvr2Thick

    Nvr2Thick Viscount

  6. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    BTW. One should, in best source-mode criticism (that term stolen from my native land of lit-crit), reveal one's influences.

    Those are, in the case of my worship of Chapuis, that the organ faculty at Oberlin (my connection to which I will defer to a later discursus, except to mention that is where Duke poached Fenner Douglass from, with the Flentrop commission) generally considered Chapuis the organist's organist.

    As Wallace Stevens was frequently viewed as 'the poet's poet.'
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
  7. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco





    P.S. These MP3 files are really dreadful.
     
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  8. whipped guy

    whipped guy Regent

    As are many MP3's!!! Of course it is said that 128 Kbps is sufficient, but I disagree. They start to sound decent at 192 and 256. When you get to 320 Kbps they are cooking, but there still is nothing like a WAVE file! For space issues using FLAC helps. Still ironically at times with a low bit rate they can sound decent as by some strange occurrence what is lost in the MP3 process somehow makes things sound better.
     
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  9. honcho

    honcho Protector of the Realm

    Apple lossless sometimes manages to get recordings compressed into less than 50% of their original size loosing no information whatsoever. Don't know whether the windows media player supports it not owing any u-soft devices myself.

    (It takes advantage of the fact that the left and right channels are highly coordinated and uses other compression techniques).
     
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  10. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    So I was chastised yesterday in another forum for quoting my own post. To my chastiser I conclude: fuck you & fuck off.

    Re-listening to Koopman's 548, it just does not hold water. He here I think gives direct proof of my god H. Bloom's notions about not less than Freudian contests of power, ego and authority between artists in any given medium governing what they do aesthetically.
     
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  11. whipped guy

    whipped guy Regent

    As someone who often quotes himself as well (after all one quotes good people when one quotes themselves) I concur with your "fuck you & fuck off" conclusion!

    Plus, perhaps I have not read any of your posts that have used the "magic word" but it seems so refreshing to hear it come from you. It reminds me of the person I know who was a Jeopardy contestant and during the filming of the show something went awry and Alex Trebeck uttered said magic word. Even though the guy came in second he told me that it made the whole experience totally worthwhile.
     
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  12. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    I probably don't use it nearly as often as I should. :rolleyes:

    Like nuclear weaponry, it seems to have greatest effect when use is reserved for special occasions.
     
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  13. whipped guy

    whipped guy Regent

    Totally agree! For the record, for every day commonplace frustrations I tend to use the earthy Italian dialect option. I likewise save the "F bomb" for those very "special occasions"!
     
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  14. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    BTW, what I meant by this rather arcanely stated interpretation is that Koopman would certainly know Chapuis' recorded performance of this piece. (My Oberlin organ performance friend once said Chapuis is viewed in the profession as the "organist's organist." Much as my beloved Stevens is often termed a "poet's poet.")

    Anyway, in trying to find some interpretive mode that would not sound like a copy of Chapuis, Koopman invented something strange and, on first hearing, rather interesting. But on subsequent listenings, to me, it really had nothing to do with the music as written.
     
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  15. whipped guy

    whipped guy Regent

    It's interesting to compare different approaches to compositions. There is a Haydn Keyboard Sonata that I have been playing for years and I have always played the e-minor trio section of the central minuet in a very delicate manner and even used the soft pedal to emphasize the contrast. I was listening to a performance by a very young student on YouTube the other day and he ripped into that trio section as if it were late Beethoven on steroids! It totally floored me at first, but a lightbulb that said Strum und Drung went off in my head and I felt foolish for never catching it! It completely transforms the piece into something different and actually fits better into the sonata's structure as a whole.

    It will be intriguing to see if what sounded "strange" and "interesting" on first hearing will wear well on repeated playing. So far I'm convinced that it works, but I'm curious to see if I change my mind.
     
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  16. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    Further PS about 548: It is a devil to perform. Without the just-right instrument, registered just right, in the right performance space, it dissolves into inchoate blobs of shifting sound. Even at that, I have heard performers on the Duke Flentrop -- an ideal machine in an ideal space for the piece -- entirely lose control over it.

    It needs an imaginative span that is just not very common. Not to mention superhuman keyboard and finger technique: not for nothing is the fugue nicknamed the "Wedge."
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  17. whipped guy

    whipped guy Regent

    Yes finger technique, the exact space required, assuring that there are no inchoate (I had to look that one up!) blobs of shifting around, and never loosing control are definity all part of the perfect wedge... Yes, it takes much practice to get a wedgie just right!!!

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    ROFL
     
  19. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    Adequate performance, a perfect example of the Pedantic (traditional German) approach to Bach performance. Actually I think it may be called a slightly different word which I can't recall just now, but Pedantic is what it means. :cool:



    The other school is French. Can't recall the term of art for it right now either, but it's something pretty droll and laughing-at-ze-French, as I recall. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  20. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    In fact forcing one more listen, Koopman all but turns Bach into Wagner here. :confused: :mad: