Majestic Performance of Dylan Song By Patti Smith at Nobel Prize Awards

Discussion in 'Comedy & Tragedy' started by WilliamM, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. nycman

    nycman Count

    I call shenanigans.

    Show up and be grateful you've received one of the highest honors mankind can bestow....

    or...don't...and look like an ass.

    He choose poorly....despite the fact that Patti was almost amazing.
     
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  2. WilliamM

    WilliamM Regent



    How about a break from the discussion for a Dylan Christmas song, sort of.
     
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  3. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    Well, we must agree to disagree on this.

    There is a long catalog of serious critique of the Nobel Academy's aesthetic and political scleroses of vision across the years in their arts awards. (Those exist too in their science awards, but that's a different line of analysis.) Which they magnificently overcame here, but big whoop in the grand scheme. I think you genuflect to them too much.

    Of course everyone must make his own judgment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  4. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    And to add: that is unimaginably condescending.

    These artists summon themselves out of themselves to scale heights you and I would never have known existed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
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  5. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    To put it another way.

    These aesthetic achievements are as physicist Eugene Wigner's 'Cave of the Hot Winds' computational group within the Manhattan Project, up on the Los Alamos mesa, where other project workers could go with questions, and in real time, just computing in their heads, Wigner and his group would give them answers to far worse than, to quote one source, "those equations that lurk dragon-like in the last chapters of advanced calculus texts."
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  6. nycman

    nycman Count

    When you start quoting your own posts...it's time to stop.
     
  7. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    No less brain-dead than before. Thanks for the consideration.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  8. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    Foundationally:

    Dylan's insight that Smith, for reasons said in above posts, and then for so many larger reasons also, would be the one person alive who would be capable to so far exceed him in giving a Nobel-worthy performance.

    That word "exceed" fell into my understanding from Truman Capote, when he wrote that (quoting from memory), "People like Updike and Styron are 'fine' writers, but they won't last because they don't try to exceed themselves, the way Flannery O'Connor to take one of our current greatest examples always does."

    A statement equally applicable to, and true of, Capote himself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
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  9. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    The piece itself is simply so large as to be unperformable.

    He knew that.

    Her capacity to do so nonetheless.

    Beyond comment.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
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  10. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    PPS, regarding the Nobel award to Dylan, could this have been an early moral shot across the bow of Trump?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  11. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    ...And I'll know myself
    When the fire starts singing...


    As unperformable as LvB's last quartets.

    Or the poems of Wallace Stevens.

    She gave us a miracle.
     
  12. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    Per me si va ne la città dolente,
    per me si va ne l’etterno dolore,
    per me si va tra la perduta gente.


    Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore:
    fecemi la divina podestate,
    la somma sapienza e ‘l primo amore.


    Dinanzi a me non fuor cose create
    se non etterne, e io etterno duro.
    Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch’intrate.
     
  13. WilliamM

    WilliamM Regent

    Translation, please.
     
  14. nycman

    nycman Count

    I won't pretend to be able translate Italian....
    but I recognize the last line as the inscription on
    the Gates of Hell in Dante's The Divine Comedy.

    Specifically Canto III from the Inferno in The Divine Comedy:

    Through me the way to the suffering city;
    Through me the everlasting pain;
    Through me the way that runs among the Lost.
    Justice urged on my exalted Creator:
    Divine Power made me,
    The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love.
    Nothing was made before me but eternal things
    And I endure eternally.
    Abandon all hope - Ye Who Enter Here.

    Source
     
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  15. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

  16. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    What I meant by that post was, essentially, to say: look how very close indeed Dylan approaches to Dante's aesthetic achievement and greatness. Particularly that Hard Rain is in much the same spirit as D's immortal inscription on the Gate of Hell. (Some lit crits even read it as the Gate itself speaking the inscription aloud.)

    I don't mean this as hyperbole. Dylan's work is, I think, Up There with the immortals.

    Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son
    And where have you been, my darling young one
    I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
    I've walked and I've crawled on six crooked highways
    I've stepped in the middle of seven sad forests
    I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans
    I've been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard
    And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, and it's a hard
    It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall
    Oh, what did you see, my blue-eyed son
    And what did you see, my darling young one
    I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it
    I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it
    I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin'
    I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin'
    I saw a white ladder all covered with water
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken
    I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children
    And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard
    It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall
    And what did you hear, my blue-eyed son?
    And what did you hear, my darling young one?
    I heard the sound of a thunder that roared out a warnin'
    Heard the roar of a wave that could drown the whole world
    Heard one hundred drummers whose hands were a-blazin'
    Heard ten thousand whisperin' and nobody listenin'
    Heard one person starve, I heard many people laughin'
    Heard the song of a poet who died in the gutter
    Heard the sound of a clown who cried in the alley
    And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard
    It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall
    Oh, what did you meet, my blue-eyed son?
    Who did you meet, my darling young one?
    I met a young child beside a dead pony
    I met a white man who walked a black dog
    I met a young woman whose body was burning
    I met a young girl, she gave me a rainbow
    I met one man who was wounded in love
    I met another man who was wounded with hatred
    And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard
    It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall
    And what'll you do now, my blue-eyed son?
    And what'll you do now, my darling young one?
    I'm a-goin' back out 'fore the rain starts a-fallin'
    I'll walk to the depths of the deepest black forest
    Where the people are many and their hands are all empty
    Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters
    Where the home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison
    And the executioner's face is always well hidden
    Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten
    Where black is the color, where none is the number
    And I'll tell it and think it and speak it and breathe it
    And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it
    Then I'll stand on the ocean until I start sinkin'
    But I'll know my song well before I start singin'
    And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard
    It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall
     
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  17. Keith30309

    Keith30309 Count

    Nifty neato!

    And, in other news,

    Fox News Bias Alert - January 24, 2017:
    "Disgraced newsman Rather thumps Conway for 'alternative facts'"
     
  18. WilliamM

    WilliamM Regent

    Bob Dylan's words and music are strong enough to stand alone, without comparisons to Dante or anyone else.

    I started this thread and was hoping for a discussion about Dylan, not Dante.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  19. AdamSmith

    AdamSmith Count de Crisco

    My thoughts cante are about Dylan, in complete service to your intent.

    Odd that would even need to be said.
     
  20. Nvr2Thick

    Nvr2Thick Count

    It reminded me of "Robin Hood"
    And the part where Little John jumped from the rock
    To the Sheriff of Nottingham's back.
    And then Robin and everyone swung from the trees
    In a sudden surprise attack.
    And they captured the sheriff and all of his goods
    And they carried him back to their camp in the woods
    And the sheriff was guest at their dinner and all
    But he wriggled away and he sounded the call
    And his men rushed in and the arrows flew-
    Peter Rabbit did sort of that kind of thing too.​
     
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