To Pay or Not To Pay?...You Be the Judge and Jury

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Mikel, Dec 28, 2003.

  1. Mikel

    Mikel Knight

    I was recently in Palm Springs enjoying one of the gay resorts. I had made previous arrangements to spend some time with a Southern California Escort on my last night in Palm Springs. The escort is reviewed well and had sent some phenomenal pics.

    This escort acknowledged he had planned to drive in to Palm Springs anyways for the weekend and was NOT making a special trip to PS for me. The date, the price, and the time of 8 PM had been established and confirmed twice.

    During my last day, I left my resort and paid for a day pass to another nearby resort just for a change of "scenery". Lo and behold...who do I meet at the resort I am visiting but the escort I was scheduled to connect with latter that night! Of course, he did not know who I was but I certainly recognized him! We got to talking and enjoying each others company. We discovered that we had similiar interests in terms of camping National Parks, music, etc. We got into some hot action in the steam room and were definitely compatible there! Mind you...all the while the escort does not know I am his 8 PM appointment.

    I was preparing to leave and return to my resort...and about to tell my new "friend" that I would see him at 8 PM, finally revealing my identity as his 8 PM client! He requested that I not leave yet and join him as his guest at the Tommy Bahama Cafe on El Paseo Drive in Palm Desert for dinner! I accepted the invitation. During dinner, my companion tells me (as if I didn't know) that he is an escort and that he had an appointment at 8 PM but would like to connect with me after his appointment! We talked about different options for about 9:30 or 10:00 PM.

    I was about to tell my dinner companion that I was his client when he told me that he didn't want to rush our dinner and interrupt our evening and that he was going to call his client and cancel his 8 appointment! My cell phone was off...but he called and left a voice mail, politely expressing his regrets that "something unexpected came up and I have to cancel". He was, in his own words, "relieved", and happy that we had the night free to spend together!

    We return to his car. I tell him I have a voice message. I play it on the speaker phone! He hears his voice!! He realizes who I am...we laugh. But, later...he comments that I should pay him his fee. I questioned that, stating he had cancelled without any prodding from me and that if I had not allowed him to hear the voice mail message, he would have never known.

    What do you think? I can't wait to hear your opinions. You be the judge and jury. I'll tell you what eventually happened after I hear your opinions.

    (Of course, I'll keep the identity of the escort confidential. Perhaps he'll see this thread and add his perspective.)
  2. That's a tough one. It seems as though you had a great situation, but you got arrogant and played him the voice mail message. If you had just let the situation play out, you would have had a great day and no escort fee. But because you needed to proove to the escort how cool you were, then you SHOULD pay him his regular fee.

    A little less hubris, and you would have saved the money. It also probably made the escort swithc from "hot hook-up" mode to "client" mode. Somethings are better left unsaid.
  3. mmk

    mmk Knight

    To me, the fact that the escort did cancel his apppointment with you to spend the evening with someone else (who also happened to be you) would indicate that the escort was not in that great of need of the fee you were going to be providing him. (I do not know how much the fee was but I think it is a safe bet that it was a few hundred) I do not think that the escort was entitled to anything at all.

    However Mykel, even though you did nothing wrong, I do not think that your actions were exactly on the "up and up" either. You were, in a sense, playing the escort and I can see where the escort would ask for his fee, even though he did cancel since you were aware of whom he was but not vice versa.
  4. I agree with Mr.Revere(nice to see you posting again)that playing the recording-when you knew damned well that would make the escort uneasy was totally uncool,and ruined whatever fun the escort had had with you in all likelyhood.

    Otherwise you would have been getting the best of all worlds-but you had to show off.
  5. Lucky

    Lucky Retired

    Am I the only one who thinks that this scenario was devised for our amusement rather than based in reality? It just doesn't really ring true.
    Or am I just too cynical?
  6. Mikel

    Mikel Knight

    >Am I the only one who thinks that this scenario was devised
    >for our amusement rather than based in reality? It just
    >doesn't really ring true.
    >Or am I just too cynical?

    You are cynical, Lucky...but being cynical isn't always a bad thing...I'm not even sure if one can be "too" cynical. But, that doesn't mean this is not reality based. Still, keep on being cynical...we need and appreciate your cynicism!
  7. guyinsf

    guyinsf Baron

    No, I'm with you in this assessment. If I were to take this scenario seriouisly, though, I would say that the client should pay only if he continued his time with the escort beyond the point at which the escort indicated that he expected to be paid.

    >Am I the only one who thinks that this scenario was devised
    >for our amusement rather than based in reality? It just
    >doesn't really ring true.
    >Or am I just too cynical?
  8. vinotinto

    vinotinto Guest

    Assuming this is true, in my view you owe him nothing at all. He cancelled your business apointment, anmd everything else was off the clock.
  9. deej

    deej Administrator

    >Am I the only one who thinks that this scenario was devised
    >for our amusement rather than based in reality? It just
    >doesn't really ring true.
    >Or am I just too cynical?

    You're being cynical, for sure. Too cynical? Is there such a thing?

    This situation does sound contrived, unless you've hung out at the gay resorts in Palm Springs. I can see it happening. There really isn't much to do/see in PS. You can play golf, or go to the resorts to fuck around. I'm betting the escort in question isn't much of a golfer. :+
  10. Charlie

    Charlie Peer

    If I were you, I would have been appalled that he cancelled his appointment with you in order to have sex with someone else (you). I would not have let him know who you were, but I would have done something during the sex to make him regret not playing by the rules ("accidently" bitten his cock, left chewing gum in his pubic hair, etc.). Then I would have written a "no show" review.
  11. Kenny021

    Kenny021 Guest

    Am I the only one who thinks that this scenario was devised for our amusement rather than based in reality? It just doesn't really ring true.
    Or am I just too cynical?

    I absolutely believe that this story is a "put on"....but again, I am cynical. If, this is a true story, the escort should be named for breaking an appointment for NO GOOD REASON. As to paying him his fee, HA HA HA. Remember, HE CANCELLED!.
  12. guptasa1

    guptasa1 Baron

    Unbelievable situation if it really did happen.

    Well, my feeling's this. From the escort's perspective, that was probably very weird and uncomfortable after he found out you were his to-be-client. Not only did he just cancel on you, which'd be awkward at best, but he also now probably doubts your motives for meeting up with him at the resort. Hell, for all he knows, you could somehow have been stalking him. (I'm NOT saying at all any of this is the case, but if it were me, I'd be a little freaked out in this situation.)

    It was probably very awkward after you met him to tell him who you were right up front, and I certainly understand why you held back when things were going so well, but I think honesty would have probably been the best policy here...and the sooner the better. Either that, or as others mentioned, enjoying the situation and not telling him who you were at all (but I wouldn't have personally been comfortable with that option given the same situation).

    As far as being cancelled on, well, I think in my case I would have been a bit flattered by that. LOL.

    And I don't know; as far as payment, I think I'd pay him since it was so awkward...and he now sees you as a client. On the other hand, if I were the escort, I probably wouldn't have asked for payment in this same situation because I wouldn't feel I have the right to. It's not a good on either side at this point I'm afraid.
  13. Unicorn

    Unicorn Regent

    Assuming the story is true, he cancelled the appointment himself (because he was enjoying himself so much with you, apparently), so you owe him nothing. But I agree with the others that it showed bad judgment to let him know you were the one he bailed. I can't see a valid motivation for that.
    I don't find this story that unbelievable. I've hooked up with escorts and porn stars in the past without knowing until later. I actually dated a guy a few times when he told me (for some strange reason, he never returned my calls after that--I don't know if he was ashamed, or upset because I didn't know who he was). What I haven't done is hooked up with someone I'd already decided to hire!
  14. cougar

    cougar Master

    If this is a true story, here is my take on it.

    The thing that interests me the most is a complete lack of respect by both parties for other people:
    The lack of respect by the escort for a client who is going to pay him for his time and the arrangements that have been made in advance. Granted the escort did call his 8 PM appointment to cancel, however, nothing really did "come up" (well something did)it is just that the escort was caught up in the here and now. Sometimes, I feel escorts make appointments and will show up, but if they do not show,it might be just because it didn't fit well enough into their schedule for that day.
    As for the client, I can only imagine that once he saw the escort he thought he could play him for whatever reason. Since he recognized the escort, he was the one that made the first move and led him down a false trail. Making conversation and getting to know the escort was okay, but his actions showed he really had no respect for the escort himself. Playing the voice message for the escort destroyed the evening of fun for both.
    As for me, I think I would have paid the escort the previously agreed money. That way everyone gets to leave happy and maybe open the door for a repeat.
  15. Utopia

    Utopia Guest

    What a fun litle story. Mikel, I do not believe you should pay the escort anything. Though based on what you said you were 100% wrong to to play his voice mail message back to him.

    If you had a fun time and what you say is honest then why fuck it up by telling him you were his 8pm client? What was the purpose? What did you hope to gain? I mean you placed him in a odd situation when you did that. Naturally his defenses are going to appear and ask for money at that point. You handled the situation very poorly no matter the outcome.
  16. Will

    Will Viscount

    This is sort of a gay version of the Randy Cohen "Ethicist" weekly column in the New York Times Sunday magazine. Whether it's true or not, it presents a plausible ethical dilemma that I think is really interesting.

    To my mind, however, the real issue is not whether the escort was justified in asking for payment, or whether the client was right in refusing. The real issue is deception, which is a particularly vicious form of lying when it involves the emotions of another person.

    The escort's purely sexual behavior at the resort didn't compromise either one of them. He was looking for somebody to fool around with, and so it seems to me that the right thing for the client to have done was to enjoy it, just as his partner did. But when the sex was over, a scrupulous person might have told the escort the truth about his identity, and assure the escort that he was looking forward to paying for more of the same that evening. After all, when the escort was at the resort in the afternoon, he was on his own time; and what he did with his own time was his business.

    Even if the client had passed on identifying himself after sex (which was probably spontaneous and didn't require introductions), things changed when the escort then asked him to be his guest for dinner and actually cancelled a business appointment in order to continue with what was obviously a personal attraction. By not revealing himself at that point, the client crossed the threshhold into genuine deception and violated the escort's hospitality as well as his emotional vulnerability. Not only was there the deception about the coming commercial transaction; worse, there was the deception that involved the escort's personal feelings.

    Thus, I think the escort was absolutely right to be shocked, hurt, whatever. And when he demanded payment, I can only suppose that he was trying to recover some of the dignity that his would-be client had robbed him of. Bottom line: Adam made a fool of Steve. Why shouldn't Steve be royally pissed off?
  17. Utopia

    Utopia Guest

    > By not revealing himself at that point,
    >the client crossed the threshhold into genuine deception and
    >violated the escort's hospitality as well as his emotional
    >vulnerability. Not only was there the deception about the
    >coming commercial transaction; worse, there was the deception
    >that involved the escort's personal feelings.
    I disagree very strongly with you Will. There was no reason at all to inform the escort that this man was his clien that eveniing. The escort obviously wa attracted to him as someone who he met at the resort, not to turn him into a special project to get money from him. We do not, in our lives, have to acknowledge every fucking thing.

    Come on the escort didn't inform the client who he was till after sex then after dinner. Why wait, he waited because he was attracted to our client in the story and maybe wanted to let him know this in case he saw potential for more of a relationship.

    What no one has touched on, look how quicky this escort cancelled his appointment. Has to give weight to all the other escort cancellations for bogus reasons.

    The escort was willing to give up his fee for the night to be with our client. The client made the error to flaunt who he was and that was completely wrong. If he truly enjoyed being with the escort there simply wasn't any need to do that.
  18. Fair And Balanced, Redux

    > I would have done something
    >during the sex to make him regret
    >not playing by the rules
    >("accidently" bitten his cock, left
    >chewing gum in his pubic hair, etc.).

    The very definition of passive/aggressive behavior.

    >Then I would have
    >written a "no show" review.

    "Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord."
  19. msclonly

    msclonly Viscount

    Will we be graded on our answers?

    This was a pretty good story until the playback of the Voice Mail.
    At that point got gets 'stupid'!

    Unless the reasoning for playback of the Voice Mail is the Client expected to take the escort back to his room for the suggested nite of fun, and then the escort would have figured out, that he was with the guy already and gave up his fee by cancelling. So the Playback would have been sort of like an admittal or confession before the escort put 2 and 2 together.

    OR The client was probably satisfied and really didn't care for more action Free or at cost! But it might have been being bitchy, as well!

    When will our Grades be posted?}(
  20. Moral Relativism

    The point of ethics is simple: defining what is right or wrong in the interactions between people.

    As was pointed out in Will's analysis, the sex was likely spontaneous and did not require introductions. Under the circumstances presented, the obligation would be on the part of the prospective client to identify himself to the person he recognized, not the other way around. In my opinion, the prospective client should have introduced himself right off at the initiation of conversation as the 8:00 p.m. appointment.

    I would, however, also agree that it was inappropriate behavior for the escort to cancel the appointment. But then again, as an escort, I would not have engaged in a number of behavior patterns as described here: I would not have sex so close to a schedule appointment, and even more so I would not leave a phone massage but rather would have tried repeatedly to speak with the client IF I had a legitimate reason to cancel.

    Finally, while I believe Will's supposition as to why the fee was requested (in an attempt to save face or restore dignity), were I the escort in the situation, when the client played the phone message, I would not have laughed. I would simply turn to the client, tell him something "unexpected" came up, and I would have gotten into my car and returned to my resort alone.

    As I state above, I would never find myself in this situation as described. I also think, as is often the case in any such event recounted on this site, whether posted by an escort or client, is that we are only getting one side of the story from one of the parties. Also, as with many such postings, there are many details left unsaid:

    1. Who approached whom? Did the client initiate the conversation? If so, then at the very initial point, the client should have stated, "You are Joe Escort, right? We have an appointment tonight at 8:00 p.m." If the escort initiated the conversation, the prospective client should still reveal his status immediately.

    2. Who initiated the "hot action" in the steam room?

    3. The client had any number of reasons to reveal his identity. The client even acknowledges that he felt some obligation to reveal his identity. The client also acknowledges he had every intention of keeping his appointment. He could have done so after the steam room incident, prior to accepting the invitation to dinner, or over dinner, or even when the escort went to make the call to cancel. He took none of these opportunities and offers no reason why. Rather, he let the escort make a phone call and then, nearly immediately afterwards, plays the telephone call back to the escort.

    If the prosepctive client did not intend to act in a deceptive behavior throughout this incident, he needs to explain his behavior as to these questions. Otherwise, all that happened here was one person was deceptive when numerous situations presented to be otherwise, while the other person was simply rude and inconsiderate both in the manner (voice mail) and rationale (something more to his liking) for a last minute cancellation of a previously scheduled and confirmed business appointment.